[SOMETIMES YOU NEED TO LEAVE SPACE SO THINGS CAN LAND]

REFERENC: Winston, we heard you don’t do yoga.

Winston: That’s true!

REFERENC: Why not?

Winston: Well, if I start doing yoga, I’d have to make room for it by giving something else up. And that would be my strength training. I enjoy that too much! Yoga comes with fixed times, classes, schedules. That’s very different from how I train.

REFERENC: How do you train?

Winston: I have an agreement with my training buddy to be in the gym somewhere between 7.30 and 8.00 in the morning. That feels free. As soon as something becomes too rigid, I struggle to stick with it.

Like many necessary things in life, yoga is something I tend to postpone.

REFERENC: Is yoga necessary for you?

Winston: Well, strength training requires mobility. Yoga helps with that.

I also value moments of reflection. Daily moments of grounding. Really arriving in your body. Yoga offers all of that. So, I know that in the long run, it would do me a lot of good.

It’s been my intention ever since we opened Vondelgym and I’ve been a few times, but no more than I can count on two hands.

[WORKING OUT IS MORE THAN JUST WORKING OUT FOR ME. IT’S LIKE THE CEMENT BETWEEN ALL THE DIFFERENT PARTS OF MY LIFE]

REFERENC: How often do you train?

Winston: I have a knee injury and a shoulder injury, so I’m a bit out of the game. Right now, I’m working one-on-one with a physio. He’s more of a strength and conditioning coach. We focus purely on recovery.

REFERENC: How’s that going?

Winston: [Laughs] It’s frustrating! My body rarely lets me down. Now I want all kinds of things, but I simply can’t. That’s confronting. It forces me to accept where I am, and I struggle with that. In the gym, things always came relatively easily to me. I’ve had injuries before, but never this long. And never in a way that truly restricted my freedom of movement.

REFERENC: What does that say about the role of sport in your life?

Winston: Working out is more than just working out for me. It’s like the cement between all the different parts of my life. When I don’t move as much, everything else starts to slip. My nutrition. My sleep. My focus. Being active has always been my safety net.

REFERENC: And creatively?

Winston: Working out lowers my stress levels. Without it, it takes more effort to reach a place where I can create. When I do move, my head clears. That’s where the work starts.

REFERENC: What else is needed for you to create freely?

Winston: I’ve found that the physical space I’m in has a huge influence on my creative process. I’m lucky to have a studio in Rotterdam-West. It’s a special place. Aesthetics matter to me. This space feels like holy ground. Everyone who walks in here says the same thing: there’s a good energy here.

REFERENC: And how do people influence your process?

Winston: That might matter even more. I’m very selective about who I let into the process. On Mssyeh I worked with only a few people, all handpicked. I know them personally.

They get here. I create the setting. I create the framework. And within that framework, we create together. It’s never crowded here: especially not when I’m writing.

REFERENC: Why is that important?

Winston: Writing requires vulnerability. It becomes much harder for me to open myself up when there are too many eyes and ears in the room. I need a serene setting. One where there isn’t too much talking.

REFERENC: Dutch writer Cees Nooteboom once said you can only write about what has passed through you.

Winston: I recognize that very strongly. My theory about creating is that we let energy, or stories, move through us. We’re not necessarily the source, we’re the transmitter. You turn on your antenna. It picks up what’s in the air. And you let that move through you. You’re more of a
vessel than an architect.

REFERENC: Your latest album, Mssyeh, deals with the loss of your longtime friend Feis. What was the process of making it like?

Winston: I tried to be as honest as possible while making it. I shut out what I thought the listener would want to hear. I rarely do that anyway, but with this album, not at all.

A lot of people go into the studio trying to make something with replay value. Like the food industry adding sugar to everything so you keep coming back. On this album, I barely used sugar.

REFERENC: We noticed some long instrumental sections.

Winston: This album deals with loss. Not just any loss – my friend was murdered. It’s heavy material. Sometimes you need to leave space so things can land.

[MY THEORY ABOUT CREATING IS THAT WE LET ENERGY, OR STORIES, MOVE THROUGH US. WE’RE NOT NECESSARILY THE SOURCE, WE’RE THE TRANSMITTER]

REFERENC: How has the response been?

Winston: Not everyone wants to engage with this level of heaviness. People don’t put on this album in the morning for a boost, you know. But the people it does reach, it reaches deeply.

After shows, people tell me what the album means to them. That it gives them strength. In moments like that, it feels like I managed to turn something dark into something that helps others.

REFERENC: When does something gain meaning for you?

Winston: The moment you write it down. And then... meaning grows over time. Through how others experience it. Sometimes you only later realize what you truly said.

Many years ago, and during my 101Barz session with Feis, I had a bar that said I wasn’t going to be the 31st out of 12 who was going to use violence. If you then think that Feis was killed on the 31st of December… That still doesn’t feel real. He was standing next to me when I rapped that bar. These words now carry a completely different weight. Sometimes words of the past become something you can hold on to.

REFERENC: Words become responsibility.

Winston: Absolutely. Because I have a megaphone, I need to handle them carefully. I’ve never said anything that later made me think I shouldn’t have said that. Maybe I’m strict with myself. But I sleep better because of it.

REFERENC: Where does that awareness come from?

Winston: From listening. From feeling what other artists mean to me. And then going into the studio with that same intention: to mean something to others.

REFERENC: Depth over reach.

Winston: Always. Personal stories can’t be copied. That’s legacy, man. That’s the unique fingerprint you leave behind!

REFERENC: What’s next?

Winston: There’s a new album coming! I feel like there’s a weight off my chest since I’ve finished Mssyeh. I’ve given myself back to myself.

This album feels less important, if that makes sense. And precisely because of that, I can create more freely.

It’s not dark. It’s space. Freedom. Permission to be.

This portrait was captured during WINNE’s 2025 Mssyeh tour in Amsterdam, and in the lead-up to his appearance at the 2026 Edison Awards. Special thanks to Winston and his team for welcoming us into that moment. Words by Jan-Willem Wesselingh. Photography by Laurent Stevens. Styling by REFERENC and Winston Bergwijn.